M: Now both the government and the opposition party agreed that state schools are not good enough.
M: And the Opposition is coming up with some new proposals of their own to improve them.
M: But is their approach really all that different from the government's?
M: Today we have Theresa May, the shadow education secretary from the Opposition with us on the radio show.
M: Good afternoon, Theresa.
W: Good afternoon.
M: Can I remind you of what John Major said only a few years ago when he was Prime Minister?
M: He said we should give people opportunity and choice.
M: We don't mean some people. I mean everyone, opportunity for all. Well, that is precisely what the present government is saying, opportunity for all.
W: The hallmark of this government is that what they say and what they actually do is always different. And that's no different in education.
W: What we see from the present government is that they may talk about opportunity for all,
W: they may talk about choice, but actually they are cutting opportunity and reducing choice.
W: And what I think is most damaging is that actually they are giving a message
W: Don't bother. If you are from a state school, there are barriers to be put in your place. But this is far from the truth.
W: Universities have been doing a very great deal to encourage state school pupils to apply.
W: The point is that we still haven't got enough state school pupils applying to our leading universities.
M: But your government had 18 years to get more of them into Oxbridge.
W: And indeed we increased the number of young people in this country going to university, from one in eight to one in three.
W: The number of state pupils being accepted by Oxford and Cambridge and other leading universities, the proportion of state pupils has actually increased.
W: But there is a problem in many of our secondary schools - of expectations.
W: And it is the present government that has been leveling down expectations rather than raising them.